Posts by Sea Breeze

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Sea Breeze

No circles. I've been on point consistently. Why is it so hard for you to just admit that these facts just don't fit in a materialist naturalistic paradigmn? Or, as you orginally put it, "has no basis in reality whatsoever".

Hand waving and telling people to just go away when they ask uncomfortable questions and present you with uncomfortable evidence can't be very satisfying.

This is what I did as a kid growing up in the "Truth". I broke the rules concerning which topics I was allowed to explore or not. I still do it. It is part of my love of freedom. Isn't it true that materialism & naturalism have some pretty tight mental rules that adherents must follow as well in order to stay within the atheist fold so to speak? I can't see where it would hurt you to wander off the plantation a little bit from time to time.

The rules you are adhering to seem self-imposed and unnecessary. It certainly looks like this apparatus prevents you from examinng even the simpliest of questions if they do not fall within your scope of allowed thinking. Can you at least admit that?

16

Am I being unreasonable in this ?

by smiddy3 in

hi friend`s ,i have my son and dil living with us ,which has been ok,overall ,quite a few years now ,however ,a few months ago they decided they wanted a dog ok ?

we had one a toy poodle for about 16-17 years and i just loved her as did my wife.. a few months ago my son wanted a dog and got a french bulldog as a pup ,which was ok by us .. however to cut a long story short, yesterday i was out in the back yard and the dog lunged at me and started attacking me in such a way as i can only describe as being frenetic in his attack ,in trying to ward off his attack and getting away from him i fell over and i believe if my son hadn`t finlly restrained him he would have mauled me .

i am 83 years old and my wife has just turned 80. and i dont want that to happen to her .. i don`t know the dog is what 4-5-6 months old i`m not sure , and been living with us all this time ,however i`m going to tell them to get that dog out of my house by the week and and a half or i will one way or another .. i am not going to tolerate that in my household and if he don`t like it he can go also .. i`m not being unreasonable am i ?

Sea Breeze

Sounds like the dog is "mentally diseased". Has he been around apostates lately?

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Sea Breeze

You’re the only one ‘proclaiming’ an entirely unverifiable ‘explanation’.

This data isn't going to perfectly fit anywhere. It is a matter of where does it best fit considering the facts that are widely reported as true by credible sources.

My question isn't as extreme or proclatory as you pretend it is:

Do these facts better fit a materialist view where consciousness is said to be ONLY a product of physical brain function? Or, do they better fit a biblical view where consciousness is said to be separate from the body, especially at death?

This was the question:

Please explain these facts from a material naturalistic view:

1. The case of Anna in the video I posted on page 2 of this thread
2. Cases of seeing things while out of their body later verified to be accurate
3. Cases of verified brain dead patients acting and speaking completely normally shortly before death

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Sea Breeze

So you believe these "medical mysteries" are simply not "understood" from an atheist materialistic, naturalism point of view and that gives you a basis for criticizing other viewpoints that are actually a better fit for the verified data?

Isn't that the same as saying, "I don't know" and then proceeding to try and construct an argument from this admitted ignorance using mere proclamations?

That's not much of a conversation or an argument. Why not record your proclamations and just play them on a phonograph like Rutherford used to do? Boom, no argument or reasoning needed. Just preach it.

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Sea Breeze

This is not tedious at all Jeffro. It is all very simple stuff. If you believe in materailistic naturalism and criticize others who don't, then you ought to be able to provide at least some defense for your point of view...which you haven't in these cases:

1. The case of Anna in the video I posted on page 2 of this thread

2. Cases of seeing things while out of their body later verified to be accurate

3. Cases of verified brain dead patients acting and speaking completely normally shortly before death

If you never tackle the tough questions, what are you basing your worldview on, faith?

My worldview accomodates this data quite comfortably. Yours seems to be utterly at a loss on how to respond to this kind of data. Is saying that they are all false your only defense? That's all you got? That's not much to base a worldview on, much less a basis for criticizing others.

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Sea Breeze

Jeffro, Please explain these facts from a material naturalistic view:

1. The case of Anna in the video I posted on page 2 of this thread
2. Cases of seeing things while out of their body later verified to be accurate
3. Cases of verified brain dead patients acting and speaking completely normally shortly before death
These facts are not going away no matter how much you may like them to.

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Sea Breeze

Little more that "thought stopping techniques" and false analagies bordering on the falacy of irrelevant thesis.

I was subjected to these kinds of thoght control devices since childhood by the Watchtower and my fammily. I am very familiar with them. They seem like distant cousins now.

None of the evidence being examined here has anything to do whith aliens or shamans. We are talking about facts from credible sources.

----- added------

I don't think you understand what an ad hominem is.

Definition:

(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

Asking if you are an atheist is not a negative or a positive directed against you.

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Sea Breeze

@Jeffro Do you really believe that if I ask you if you are an atheist, that amounts to an ad hominem attack?

C'mon Jeffro. Get off your high horse. That is a crazy thing to say. I have no problem stating that I am a Christian. What harm is it to at least provide some definition here on your part; especially since you have made the following vast claims on this thread?

1."No one raised Jesus from the Dead

2. the 'gospels' are widely regarded by scholars as historical, are simply false

3. None of that has any basis in reality whatsoever. (conscious soul)

4. Beliefs about consciousness independent of a functioning physical body are just made up nonsense

experiences that are no more ‘real’ than a dream

5. This is a plain old argument from ignorance.

6. I don’t need to offer any speculative alternatives to your superstitions.

Certainly someone who has as many strong opinions as you do would have an opinion on whether or not God exists. I believe you are very likely to have an opinion on this topic. Why wouldn't you want disclose whether not you believe God exists on a forumn that deals specifically with theological and philosophical views and on a thread dealing with the existence of God?

The facts I've presented haven't changed since we started this discussion.

1. The case of Anna in the video I posted on page 2 of this thread

2. Cases of seeing things while out of their body later verified to be accurate

3. Cases of verified brain dead patients acting and speaking completely normally shortly before death

Here's the question you keep dodging:

Do these facts better fit a materialist view where consciousness is said to be ONLY a product of physical brain function? Or, do they better fit a biblical view where consciousness is said to be separate from the body, especially at death?

Or, do you consider yourself beyond the reach of scrutiny of your claims from others?

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Sea Breeze

Are you an atheist Jeffro?

I happen to believe that atheists and Christians can get along quite well. Here's an atheist / Christian book club where each are able to discuss their views after reading a book favorable to their side. Doesn't that sound fascinating?

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Sea Breeze

Why would I need to?

Because of the facts Jeffro. Just the facts. The ones you ignore.

Are you an atheist by the way?